Those morally linear advocates of the pipe dream ftl.

about the strong ruling over the weak…
well, it’s a natural order. it’s not something necessary in a civilized world, but seeing as how this is still the case even in the real world, i must that we(humans) aren’t near as civilized as we’d like to call ourselves. yeah, reality sux >_>

haha…
In the end, I can’t really blame either Lelouch or Suzaku. I think they both have comitted crimes that can not be forgiven AT ALL. I don’t buy that. (I mean I can’t really see how any of them will ever be able to live “happily ever after”).
And yeah, probably everything he does – he does for Nanally, and for revenge. I don’t think Nunally would appreciate it though.
But both Suzaku and Lelouch have reasons to be bastards, I guess. I do not really think there was this huge LOVE between Suzaku and Euphie, but, I guess after witnessing her death he is not really the same as before. Yes, he is worse. And I will forever consider Euphie’s death as the fucking most cruel character rape in the history of anime. It was horrible, and partly coz of that, I started disliking CG. I really thought it was too much.

And about Suzaku betraying his country – I really think it’s total BS. Since when people are friggin PATRIOTS? He is free to choose which army to join, be it Britannia, China or Japan. I don’t see this kind of problem in the real world. After all, US army does not have only NATIVE WHITE AMERICANS (if there is actually such a thing).

I guess I just disagree with the creators of the show here. It’s not about characters. This kind of false ideology and stuff like “the strong rule over the weak” and “revolution is good” kinda thing just annoys me.

ok, I found the root of my problem. Haha, we can end the discussion.

Suzaku will be the antagonist of this series thats for sure, or at the very least, one of them, hes easily lost all of his likeableness.

on the other side, he does have a grudge against his father since his policy is that the strong ones should rule over the weak, and that the weak are worthless, thus abandoning Nunaly. Nunaly and Mariane were everything to Lelouch. He lost his mother and his beloved sister was gravely injured and is now disabled. and Lelouch thinks that his father has something to do with that.

Lelouch used the Japanese for his plan to crush Britannia, but it’s not like he that’s the only reason. the Japanese are in a sense in a similar situation like Lelouch and Nunaly. they were stripped of their pride and name because they were weak.

Lelouch isn’t, in any way, like Light. Light is a damn bastard who thinks he can play god and kill people just like that. and only because he was bored!
Light is may have had the intention to get the world rid of criminals, but he soon punished even the lightest crimes with death.

Lelouch is actually right, morally. and he did declare war against Britannia, not against its people, but against its philosophy.
Lelouch is aware of his actions. he knows what tragedy many people go through because of him, as he has seen for himself when Shirley’s father died. hell, he even thought of stopping for a brief moment, but realized that it’s too late. he has to take responsibility for his actions. in that sense he’s the same as Toudou(the leader of the 4 holy blades).
it was also shown many times that he doesn’t view the Japanese as his pawns.
however, as the head of a military organization he can’t afford to think morally and noble all the time, as seen when he blew that ship up in the first season. he has to make priorities, and he has his own personal priorities as well –> Nunaly. she is everything to him, he even left the place of war in the end of season 1 in order to save her. the Japanese may have won if he stayed, but if he lost Nunaly he would probably be a broken man by now, unable to lead the black knights any further, and he knew that.
he may act all high and mighty because he is so friggin’ intelligent but the things he went through didn’t leave his soul unscratched.
well, you see, he had a difficult past, and he has good reasons for everything he did.

Suzaku is just a plain simple minded immature idiot.
he tries to change the world by being a model human to everyone.
that’s not a bad idea, but the time he would reach his goal his people would probably be almost extinct. he despises Zero’s way of forcing the change, but on the other hand it was him who killed his own father in order to save the Japanese. he’s not any different from Zero actually. they both took the initiative, and they both know it was their right decision, but right now, Suzaku is just being a damn hypocrite. but i think he knows that by himself.
from his expression of the first 2 episodes of the new season i would say that he greatly regrets what he did and that something died inside of him.
Suzaku might actually become a likable character, if he just was honest to himself and see things the way they are. but right now, he’s just being an idiot(over usage of the word idiot >_

Yeah, Lulu killed people, but most of em are Britanian armies. Remember, he hated Britannia because the King/his father didn’t care at all about his mother’s death and Nunnaly’s permanent injuries and practically said that Lulu is dead/useless/orsomething.

Suzaku was there, he know what happened to Lulu, what his father did to him, to his family. He was the first one that Lulu wanted to take revenge on Britannia.

And Lulu’s fight isn’t really about justice, it’s more to revenge. :/

I wouldn’t blame Suzaku for selling out his friend, he had every right to do so. And I understand that Lelouch did not use his Geass on Euphie on purpose, but he is still to blame, and I didn’t see that he actually regretted it.

@Arenu: well, ok, about the OP, I won’t say anything, ’cause in case of music, tastes differ, and to actually argue over which song is the best is pointless.

“you sound pretty much like the typical philistine shounen boy.”
Okay, first of all, I am a girl;) And, second of all, I am not a fan of shounen. I do watch Bleach and Naruto, and I think they’re crap, but I still read manga, ’cause I am plain interested in the ending.

“it’s called authenticity”
well, I still think the story was rushed. I mean, as for entertainment value, the episodes were awesome. I simply did not have time to be bored while watching CG. But it never left any emotions and it didn’t make me think at all.

“I don’t understand the show, its background or any of its reasonings.”
I don’t think I need to understand the show, or its background, everything is pretty much straightforward.

“…because of his retarded way of thinking and his overdone sense of justice.”
Yeah, he has it. This overdone sense of justice, but so is Lelouch – he has his overdone sense of justice, in a different sirection though – through deceit, murder and eliminating whatever there is in his way.
I may think of morals too much, but I would never be able to approve of a murder. And that is why I don’t like Lelouch. Because he has got the power, he thinks he can be the only justice in the world. Just like Light from DN. “The road to hell is paved with good intentions”.
Aaaah, I wrote too much, looks like I am a philosopher wannabe…